Yeah not trying to debate dilution right now and appreciate your constructive discussion. I’m just pointing out that you should not compare outcome of POL of other projects to balanced. It’s apples and oranges. The importance of POL to Balanced is much different to other projects.
I do not pretend to know things here, I vote yes for the purchase of ETH and BTC through Karma because I was hoping people behind proposals know what they are doing. I also vote yes for the overpriced but not yet fixed Balanced stats page.
Now my confidence in all this has been shaken. I am also little bit trader, BTC/ICX trading par is at historical low. Double bottom was formed with higher low. We are near the end of the bear market. To sell BALN now for BTC or ETC is suicalldal.
I also believe BALN will overperform ICX. There is less and less BALN producing every day. BALN will start mooning and put us on radar when we get listed with some central exchange. Listing on KuCoin for example needs to be our priority. This needs to be our focus and not help some entity chasing their own hidden agenda by sticking hand in pockets of already stressed Balanced stakers.
What does BTC or ETC have with us? I am all in Icon, and even If I am not I will not use some shady third party piece of software with backdoor when I have native most secure blockchains in the world working.
It is clear that Karma Bond is trying to be her own thing, to have her own treasury with LP tokens and other crypto assets and Karma tokens owned by the team. And that is okay. But it is not okay to do that like parasite feeding on Omm and Balanced investors.
It seems to me that Karma Bond is not Balanced friend, it is our competitor.
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Masta,
is there an update to the 40k USD DAO supported “massive upgrade, new interface“ to the stats page?
You are correct, it is still broken, no improvements at all at this point, has not displayed daily trade volume properly for months. For 40k I’m expecting this update to be “Coinbase Level” of professionalism. Completely new interface.
I’m giving Parrott the benefit of the doubt they will fix this and come through on a HUGE upgrade.
I’m not a fan of karma either…. Why sell and dilute our token to buy another? No need to for just a slight increase in trade volume.
Now to the positives-
BALN has great tokenomics
We have a pretty active community
We are connected to ICONs success and I love the professionalism of the ICX team.
Benny, IMO, is a beast and an overachiever in all he touches.
Let’s be patient and trust the builders, they have not lost our trust or not come through on anything I can think of.
We are still early:)
So I’m a little undecided on this vote.
I truly believe in Balanced future but it needs to be known Balanced Stakers have taken the brunt of the pain.
Balanced Stakers bought BALN down when some Workers and other traders sold.
The workers receive our ICX delegations, OMM gets to choose their delegations which is a huge win for OMM stakers.
The workers also get monthly rewards and then ask for more funding when the markets cool but when they were hot could have made hundreds of thousands of dollars with BALN heavily given out at the beginning.
Workers will now ask for more money from the DAO in bear markets like and get rich in the bull markets and the cycle continues.
Stakers used to get 70 percent fees to keep from getting diluted now we get 30 percent. To compound the pain we are now going to get diluted heavily through Karma.
Again, at some point it needs to be evident the stakers of Balanced continue to Bend when workers ask, ask, and ask in the bear markets.
Our ICX delegations may only be a 1k a month benefit to the workers now but do not forget if ICX climbs up again that one out of many benefits to the workers can be a monthly reward of 5k to 10k if ICX succeeds and the markets get hot.
I just want the workers, mainly Parrott, to stop crying “poor” in bear markets and I’m willing as a Staker to keep bending.
I’m not trying to be rude or disrespectful, just sharing my opinions.
I feel like you are ranting on because you are frustrated. I get it though; it can be frustrating to see changes that you may not fully understand, and we are in a bear market afterall…
I am not sure where you are drawing the conclusion about Karma Bond. They are not a competitor to Balanced. They are a partner and we decided to use them to help build POL - not them deciding to use us.
In regard to Parrot9 and their funding… Rome was not built in a day. I am highly confident in their ability to “Fix the stats page” among the other tasks they are undergoing - afterall they did the slick UI for Balanced that we all love. The majority of changes you won’t see happening “live”.
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I will point you towards Upgrade the marketing site and Stats page - Proposal Discussion / WIP: DFP - Balanced
Have a read. Good developers are expensive and currently they are getting paid a miniscule amount for the work they are carrying out not to mention these are token rewards not “cash” thus this would require them constantly selling tokens(which you would oppose).
Sure, if prices rise significantly then they will be having a fair pay, but they need to put food on their table and pay their rent today - not “tomorrow” or however many years down the track this growth may take.
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I understand that developers are the engine of any blockchain and I want to support them also. But in human nature is to be corrupt, selfish and greedy. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
DEX stands for decentralized echange but now we are in centralized control of cannibalistic P-reps developer cartel tumor, raping healthy part of Icon ecosystem. Now every vote at Balanced goes cartel way. They are one who make and control proposals. I watch many blockchains failed as monopolistic entities take control. We must not let this happen to Icon.
I liked ICON’s vision to give power to the people, to have passive income, to be your own bank, to be free, what this cartel is doing now is bad for the community and icon as whole. The cartel sees a Balanced treasury like their own playground.
Community is not a DEX piece of software or developers. We Balance stakers are one of the oldest parts of the community and backbone of Icon blockchain and we need protection!
Balanced community is heavily beaten, earlier there were thousands of votes now hounders of votes get the majority. From 929 bBALN holders holders only around 150 now are active voters and most of the voting power are cartel-s, and even if we have more active voters, the majority of people are sheeps, fearing change, they always support man in power, without knowledge and easily manipulated, I was one of them a few days ago.
We can not count on them. We need policing from someone with knowledge and integrity. Icon need buy enough vote power and start influencing Balance votes as neutral judges, to protect justice, to make some of proposals and do what is best for the community.
Also we need some sort of punishment force for those who abuse power, for example developer team who change ICONbet TAP stake earnings from 80% to 10% (with some secretive voting system they control) they rob ICONbet, after investigation these criminals need to be brought to justice. I see no difference between a hacker and someone who abuses power and robs people in some easier way. What happens to IconBet treasury? Icon needs to investigate that.
Similar things are happening now to BALN, crocodilian cabal making it worthless.
I’m a little flabbergasted by this post and find it disingenuous.
After comparing the tokenomics of Balanced to other Defi platforms, especially OMM, I come up with the opposite conclusion. The initial tokenomics favoured stakers too much, and could have increased both the DAO and Workers’ share while still being fair. That said, I believe it was distributed this way in hopes of building a community.
I am really pleased with the development of Balanced. From the front and backend improvements, community engagement, and governance ~ I am impressed with what the community has built here.
As to the future of Balanced: What does success look like?
Without getting into crosschain and interoperability, I believe success looks like more fees.
More Liquidity, More Arbitrage Volume, More Fees.
Renting liquidity with BALN rewards hasn’t achieved the levels of liquidity needed. A prime example is the Eth:BnUSD pool. 20% of LP rewards to rent 40K worth of liquidity. That is not sustainable.
POL is the move. I want a lot of liquidity in pairs that can be arbitraged, more than what the DAO currently holds, and more still. The more volume our sICX/BTC/ETH pairs can sustain and keep arbitrage traders profitable, the more fees Balanced will make.
Moving from 60/40 to 30/70 almost doubles the revenue Balanced has to invest in POL.
Think of it this way, let’s say you have 1% of all the bBALN staked, currently, for every $100 in fees:
- $0.60 in fees to you
- $40.00 to the DAO (you hold 1%)
- $59.30 is gone, probably paying for the cartel’s super yacht
The result is $0.60 in your pocket and a $0.40 increase in your share of the DAO, so essentially $1.
With this change, for every $100 in fees:
- $0.30 in fees to you
- $70.00 to the DAO (you hold 1%)
- $29.70 is gone, the cartel will probably have to settle for a canoe
The result is $0.30 in your pocket, and $0.70 increase to your share of the DAO, so essentially $1.
3 Likes
What is the point of investing in Balanced now? Who will be your users? There is a new DEX on Icon coming with low fees.
I lock BALN for 4 years willingly knowing that I can sell them next time in the peak of the Bear market. This is nothing else but scamming, is the same fate waiting for Craft Network or Gangstabet? Lure Community in buying by promising them returns, then changing it later.
This is nothing else than you accumulate more power. Until now I invest in Balanced almost daily. No more!
If Balanced is not sustainable I need a second opinion, someone from the Icon team. Even then I expect a more balanced approach or having community and users at Balanced will not be sustainable.
Stakers and Workers need to “be strong” in bear markets. Stakers have lost 90 percent plus too. Workers don’t need to pretend this is a full time job. Workers code on multiple projects. The only worker that has “cried poor” multiple times is Parrott. It looks like they used their 40k to buy ICX so they can now receive the voting awards they deserve with our votes. I gave them that suggestion, Which is good. They were throwing away 800 a month for not bonding properly. Parrott is very talented.
My issue is they “cry poor” for balanced all the time. That’s not a good look for Balanced. We should be able to show strength. I’m almost positive they run the Balanced Twitter as well as I can infer their writing insinuating the need for more funds from the DAO. The Twitter account should not ask where we will get cross chain funding from, like forewarning the community they will hit the DAO up for funds again.
Instead of tweeting, “community, where shall we get cross chain funds from?” It should read, “We are estatic as the markets seem to be recovering to apply for part of the 200 million ICX grant in the coming months.”
Balanced is the number 1 application for cross chain for ICON. Icon Foundation promised 200,000,000 ICX to be awarded to cross chain teams using ICON. Let ICX recover, utilize those grants and stop making Balanced “sound poor.”
I’ve voted with the DAO and Balanced, I am just giving honest feedback here. Sorry for my brevity or shortness, I have respect for Parrott and everyone on here just giving feedback from a BALN Staker.
Awax,
First off, massive respect to you and for what you have done for ICON over the years. I follow ICON closely everywhere and you are the epitome of a positive, productive, hard working community member. I will look into your post further and thanks for the response.
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Also, our focus should be to spend some of our DAO funds on a continuous audit cycle with FYEO. Then we utilize the ICX funding for cross chain. We need to slow down and get audited before a greater chance of a cross chain hack. We should not feel rushed. Balance is awesome and succeeding:)
Last but surely not least, just like the ICX team has put on hold, for good reason, the 200 million cross chain grants UNTIL the markets recover.
Balanced needs to follow suit, we’re throwing away BALN in an all time lows. Let the markets recover then use KARMA. I have no issue selling BALN if needed in a normal market, but in a bear market it makes no sense.
We should be utilizing all our BNUSD in the bear markets instead of it sitting there to buy POL. Let’s be wise stewards.
I propose the DAO buying 250k of additional icx and use 250k BNUSD for liquidity for our highest fee pool. Spend 100k on some sort of budget friendly continuous audit.
Have a great weekend, y’all.
Cheers 
For me, the big take away from this vote is the community committing to the improvement of Balanced’s future prospects.
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First I want to apologize for my harsh and bitter words. This change took me off guard and I became unbalanced then I overreacted.
On the first day when the vote started, poopster and Chiel claimed that we will get only 10% fees less then before, nobody corrected them and explained that they will get 50% less from what we get now and this I find missliding.
Some developers see this DAO like a piggy bank. I give them my empathy, they must be living in central London or some other unfortunate place where rent and food on the table is so hard to pay.
I find it very troubling to see vote power going into the hands of few who with this vote first chase away users from investing, accumulate cheap coins, and after 1 year change it back to lure more users. This pump and dump will not make us loyal community.
My portfolio is around 75% Icx, 20% BALN the rest is little bit everything, I invest in Omm 0.01% as their tokenomics did not attract me. With this change Omm will not look more attractive, in fact it will be weaker as less users will use ICON DAOs.
I think the best course of action is to 50% goes to bBALN holders and the other 50% goes to the DAO. This BALANCE also sounds great for marketing. The better bBALN APY is it will generate more users, more users - more fees.
For those who want to sell ICX and BALAN from DAO and invest in BTC and ETC they are giving the whole ICON community the message that they are in the wrong coin.
I agree Balanced needs to have its own liquidity but first it needs to do that with Icon ecosystem pairs, then with each chain we conect do them. All this can be done without taking this drastic step hurting dBALAN holders.
If this vote wins, we die-hard fans, who choose to stay with balan through the next bear market will be punished for being loyal. With this vote approved I will not reinvest in BALN and my dBALAN will slowly melt away making this investition pointless.
If Balance ship stay on this harmful course I ask you all to correct injustice and temporarily allow withdrawal of BALAN funds without penalty. Then I can change the time period to 2 years and sell them at the peak of the bull market with the rest of the rats who will again run away at first sight of a storm.
I beg the Icon team to get involved in decision making, to start making some proposals and put us on the right course.
Greetings,
Price action of BALN has been terrible since using Karma. We now have OMM price action because of dilution. Just like I said would happen. Diluting long term holders is frustrating. We can choose from this point forward to use ICX through Karma but we should not increase the supply of BALN. We should burn Baln. Get it on Kraken.
The truth is long term stakers get diluted, I don’t want to hear about the fees we gain because of more POL as dilution is the problem.
I’m fine with giving up fees to not get diluted.
It would be tax advantageous to get rid of all fees to the stakers, and instead burn Baln for long term holders.
I mean tax wise it is somewhat silly, being diluted and then receive dividends. It’s simple run BALN like CZ would. Burn the token and don’t hand out dividends.
Y’all we need to go a different direction as investors are wise to not want dilution, at the same time they would prefer a token burn over dividends.
Finally, and most importantly, this will also make BALN a lot less of a security token which should be paramount to consider changing now:)
This will be my last post for a while, just wanted to share my thoughts and opinions, but the great thing is I’m just one voice. I could be wrong and that’s the greatness of a DAO because many voices are better than a few. One thing is certain, we are all supporters of Balanced:)
Lots to think about.
One thing to keep in mind is that there is “dilution” every day of the BALN supply going to liquidity providers.
Currently nearly 500 BALN to go the BTCB / bnUSD and ETH / bnUSD pools every single day.
By providing POL to these pools then the DAO will essentially earn back the BALN over time whilst also not giving it away to “the cartels”.
This is on top of also generating more fees for the DAO, BALN holders and making the platform more via enough stable liquidity.
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Greetings,
If we’re being honest, it’s been terrible for a while.
This might be where we have a difference in opinion. I feel like burning BALN or getting listed on a major CEX are akin to cosmetic changes. Do they help Balanced’s products at all? What problems do those actions solve?
Those actions might give the price of BALN a bump, but it does nothing for our products.
I’m my opinion, the 2 questions we should be focusing on are:
- How do we get more bnUSD minted?
- How do we get more trading volume?
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I can agree with your points.
My reason for an exchange is look at UNIFI Protocol, the main worker of that project was from Sesameseed PREP team. Remember, the first PREP to offer extra rewards on the ICX blockchain.
Anyways, Balanced imo, is a much better project, but UNIFI market cap is that of 10x of balanced. Balance falls when tokens fall but does not rise or have exchange like token days.
So an exchange would help BALN get into more hands.
As far as usage on our platform and improvements, we need ICX to succeed. and be the DEX of ICX. Maybe months down the line garner cross chain customers. But we shouldn’t rush this
We need to be realistic, many projects on Coinbase and Kraken are poorly run, no real use cases, no hard value, this is crypto after all. BALN, is amazing, well besides our daily transaction volume on the stats page never working.
We will get more transactions on Balanced as ICX grows.
As far as software improvements we need to start with a continuous audit cycle with FYEO.